Hi, I'm Dr. Stephen Hassan, and for this episode of the influence continuum, I have two guests

with me today who I've known and worked together with. Mark O'Donnell and his wife, Kimberly,

our former Jehovah's Witnesses, turned whistleblowers,

following revelations of significant mishandling of child abuse within the church,

and the discovery that church policy influenced congregation elders not to report crimes to law enforcement. As a survivor of abuse and cover-up, Kimberly

has shared her story publicly and collaborates with survivors and organizations to raise awareness

of abuse, neglect, and the importance of mandatory reporting. Mark now works as a consultant and freelance writer. Mark and Kimberly's

story was featured in the Atlantic magazine in 2019 and in the Vice Documentary Crusaders in the summer

of 2021. And I want to welcome you to the influence continuum, Mark and Kimmy.

Thanks, Steve. Thanks. Great to see you again. Yes. And I just wanted to share for my listeners

that many know that I was in the Mooney's cult and I got deprogrammed and helped other people get out.

And eventually in 1988 published my first book, Combating Cult Mind Control, that was very

popular, became a bestseller. And after it came out, I started getting letters, snail mail for the digital generation,

because it was way before the Internet, from former members of the Watchtower,

especially Randall Waters, who was a former Bethel Elder, said,

I loved your book. How come you didn't mention the Jehovah's Witnesses? And I said,

why should I have mentioned them? And he said, are you kidding me? I underlined the entire book.

It's a cult. And I went, really? And he said, yeah. I said, teach me. And he said, come to L.A. and I'll organize a group

of ex-members and we'll teach you. And that's what happened. And after all of these decades since,

I've learned a lot more about the Watchtower Society. And it isn't good. I'm very, very concerned about people who are still

caught up in this destructive cult, and the cult continues to recruit. And I wanted to have the two

of you on with me because you've lived it. You're survivors. You were born and raised in it, and you have very direct

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