The Inner World of a 4w5: The Creative Struggle for Authenticity with Hanna HowardDraft: Hanna Howard
Typology
Ian Morgan Cron
4.6 • 3.2K Ratings
🗓️ 12 June 2025
⏱️ 43 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
This week on Typology I had the joy of sitting down with author Hanna Howard, an Enneagram Four with a Five wing. Hanna’s not only the author of the young adult fantasy novel Our Divine Mischief, but also a great example of how our Enneagram type shapes the stories we tell — on paper and in life.
We talk about what sets a 4w5 apart — that mix of emotional depth and intellectual curiosity. While a 4w3 may lean toward image and achievement, Hanna shares how her Five wing draws her inward, toward reflection, research, and a rich world of ideas.
Hanna opens up about her lifelong search for authenticity — that familiar Four longing to feel significant — and shares a moment from her college years when a single line from Twelfth Night put words to that ache for belonging.
Of course, we talk about Our Divine Mischief — Hanna’s alternate-history fantasy set in a magical version of Scotland. At its core, it’s a story about belonging, something every Four knows well, complete with a wish-granting dog (yes, really).
It’s a rich conversation about creativity, personality, and the longing we all carry to belong. I hope you enjoy it. And if you’re looking for a beautiful read, check out Our Divine Mischief.
🎧 Listen wherever you get your podcasts. And as always — stay curious.
Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Hey folks and welcome to Typology, the show on which we explore the mystery of the human personality and the human adventure all through the lens of the enneagram. |
| 0:13.8 | My name is Anthony Skinner. |
| 0:15.1 | So happy to have you here today, folks. |
| 0:16.8 | We've got an author who has written a young adult fantasy novel titled Our Divine Mischief, |
| 0:23.0 | and she uses the Enegram extensively as she's developed her characters. So you're going to love |
| 0:27.5 | as we chat about this book. She is an Enigram 4-Wing 5. So we talk about that unique combination |
| 0:34.2 | to 4 with a wing 5 or 5 with a wing four. But as I said, she really |
| 0:38.4 | integrates the enegram or uses the enigram as she does the development of her characters. So you're |
| 0:44.2 | going to love this conversation. I'm talking about Hannah Howard, the author of Our Divine |
| 0:49.3 | Mischief. I know you're going to love this interview. I'm so glad you're here. That's it for me, |
| 0:53.7 | Anthony Skinner. And now, without any further ado, here's the host of the show, Ian Kron. |
| 1:06.4 | Technology Tribe, welcome back. Drum roll, please, for our new friend, Hannah Howard, Enneagram 4 with a five-wing. |
| 1:15.4 | She is a novelist, the author of the amazing book, Our Divine Mischief, as well as Ignite the Sun. |
| 1:25.8 | Hannah, welcome to Typology. |
| 1:27.7 | Thank you. Thank you. |
| 1:28.6 | Thank you for having me. |
| 1:30.6 | So we try on every show to have a couple of sort of education moments. |
| 1:38.3 | So I want to talk about the difference between a four with a five wing and a four with a three wing, because they're |
| 1:44.7 | pretty distinct. |
| 1:46.0 | Yeah. |
| 1:46.4 | So let's just start with you describing four with five and what your experience of it is like, |
| 1:52.6 | because it's a very funky combination. |
... |
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