The Illusion of a Clear, Direct Path to Freedom with Chinyere Tutashinda and Rico Sisney
How to Survive the End of the World
How to Survive the End of the World
4.8 • 2K Ratings
🗓️ 25 July 2025
⏱️ 58 minutes
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Summary
As we near the end of our season of solidarity, the sisters are thrilled to go deep with Chinyere Tutashinda, co-founder of the BlackOUT Collective and current Executive Director at the Center for Third World Organizing Hub, and Rico Sisney, Director of Action Strategies and Programs at the Center for Third World Organizing Hub.
They discuss reform vs. revolution, taking America for granted, the dysfunction of the USA, direct actions that model concepts beyond nation-states, choosing right actions in troubling times, it's not either/or, being prefigurative in our actions, how much of a population needs to actively participate for there to be movement, regime change vs. systems change, how power is fundamentally held, keeping vulnerable communities safe while participating, risk tolerance, who's gonna water your plants if you're in jail, what makes a tactic legitimate, the biggest block to solidarity and the illusion of a clear, direct path to freedom.
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| 0:00.0 | I'm Autumn Brown, Front Woman of the Soul Pop Band, Autumn, a queer science fiction writer, a theologian, a mother of dragons, |
| 0:24.1 | and a healing justice facilitator for social movements living on Dakota and a Nishinaabe land, |
| 0:30.0 | currently known as Minneapolis. And I'm Adrienne Marie Brown, a luscious black queer witch |
| 0:36.3 | writer auntie, an apocalyptic cosmic optimist and a |
| 0:40.3 | gardener of healing ideas. Note, when I say I have wifie energy, please know I neither cook nor clean, |
| 0:46.5 | but I do live in the land of the Shikori, Skorru, Tuscuro, Eno, and Lumbi peoples. |
| 0:51.9 | And this is how to survive the end of the world. |
| 0:54.9 | Our podcast about learning from apocalypse with grace, rigor, and curiosity. |
| 1:00.4 | As a reminder, we have no ads. |
| 1:03.9 | We are fully listener supported. |
| 1:06.3 | And you can join our Patreon for exclusive content. |
| 1:09.4 | YAS! |
| 1:09.9 | And today, so we are deep, deep, deep into our season on solidarity. |
| 1:15.3 | And we could not let this season end without having a conversation about the role that direct |
| 1:21.8 | action and non-violent civil disobedience play in the work of solidarity. |
| 1:28.9 | And some of you may know this, |
| 1:33.1 | some of you may not, but I used to be a part of an institution, an organization called the Ruckus Society, which I love, I worship, I stand, and I give money to, and I love, and they grew, |
| 1:42.0 | have grown and grown over the years and shifted and changed and emerged and evolved in different ways. |
| 1:47.0 | So we wanted today to have the Ruckus Society, Blackout Collective, and two folks who are with C2. |
| 1:55.5 | Basically, y'all are going to explain to us now what the whole structure of everything is because it's like new and evolved. |
| 2:01.6 | But we have Chinieri Tutisinda and Rico Sisney with us today to break it down, to bring us current |
| 2:08.1 | and to help us ground ourselves in the role that this kind of action requires from us and requires |
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