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Hello and welcome to the edition podcast from The Spectator. I'm William Moore. And I'm

Laura Prendergast. And today we're looking at Zelensky's possible paths to peace, Turkey's

resistance to NATO expansion, and the attempted resurgence of the Great British Bulls Club.

First up, we're joined by James Forsyth and Alexander Clarkson, a lecturer in German and European

studies at King's

College, London. We're going to be talking about the many different borders Ukraine could draw

to end the war. James, in the magazine this week, you ask what the end game should be in negotiations

with Putin. How is Europe preparing for the negotiation table? So I think there is a sense that with the amount of aid that is flowing into Ukraine,

I mean, the US have promised 40 billion of aid, that is more than the entire defence

budget of Australia.

Ukraine has moved from a situation of trying to halt and slow down the Russian advance

to the possibility of trying to retake territory.

And so I think the question then becomes, you know, what should the end game be?

And I think the kind of the kind of current view is, you know, to send Zelensky into

a negotiating chamber in the strongest possible position.

I mean, there are two components to that in the British view.

One is maintaining and increasing the sanctions pressure on Russia.

And secondly, providing Ukraine with the kind of military equipment that can change the facts on the ground.

I don't think there is any chance of Putin coming to a negotiating table.

As long as he has this land corridor from the Crimea to the Donbass, you need to

...