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Shop Abercrombie denim in the app, online and in store. Hi, guys, and welcome to a new episode of Kindled. I am super pumped to bring you this conversation

with Marcia Montenegro, one of my all-time favorite guests.

I've had her on, I think, I don't know, a handful of times, three times now, two or three.

Can't keep track.

But this episode is no exception.

It is a really good one.

No, no exception to the standard that you can expect from Marcia every time.

She brings so much context, so much information, and so much research and knowledge to the conversation around whatever topic we're discussing, whether that's the Enneagram or, like, today, contemplative spirituality, which is something that I imagine you've probably interfaced with in some way,

shape, or form even without knowing it. It is kind of a sneaky world. It's sneaky world out

there. But we're going to be kind of pulling back the veil and revealing what are some of the

terminologies used inside

this larger and broader movement of contemplative spirituality? What are some of the

redefined words? How do they talk about prayer and a relationship with God? And are those things

biblical? Do they actually align with what scripture teaches us regarding how we should pray,

how we can know God, and all of that? It's a really great conversation. And we ended up

chatting so long that this is going to be a two-part episode. So today is part one. And then you'll

get part two next week. And so we'll be back with the second half of this conversation. So really happy to be

...