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The Gray Area with Sean Illing

The case for thinking like a child

The Gray Area with Sean Illing

Vox Media Podcast Network

Politics, News, Society & Culture, News Commentary, Philosophy

4.511.1K Ratings

🗓️ 27 April 2026

⏱️ 47 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Sean talks with psychologist Alison Gopnik about how children think, learn, experience the world, and why their minds may be more powerful than ours in some crucial ways. They explore the idea that kids are the “research and development” wing of the human species, built for exploration, curiosity, and discovery, while adults are optimized for focus, efficiency, and getting things done. Along the way, they discuss why children notice things we’ve stopped seeing, what we lose when we grow up, and what parenting reveals about love, care, and the nature of intelligence itself. Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling)  Guest: Alison Gopnik (@AlisonGopnik) We would love to hear from you. To tell us what you thought of this episode, email us at thegrayarea@vox.com or leave us a voicemail at 1-800-214-5749. Your comments and questions help us make a better show. And you can watch new episodes of The Gray Area on YouTube. New episodes drop every Monday and Friday. Listen to The Gray Area ad-free by becoming a Vox Member: vox.com/members. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

What to Make of a Life is the new book from Jim Collins, best-selling author of Good to Great.

0:07.0

Based on 10 years of research, What to Make of a Life offers transformative teachings on what it takes to navigate your way through periods of fog,

0:15.2

make it past life's inevitable cliffs, and keep the inner fire burning bright, long, and late.

0:21.5

Step into frame with What to Make of a Life, the Instant New York Times bestseller by Jim Collins,

0:27.3

available from Harper Edge wherever books are sold.

0:33.8

Dell PCs with Intel Insider built for the moments you plan and the ones you don't.

0:39.3

There for those all-night study sessions, the moment you're working from a cafe and realise every outlet's taken.

0:47.3

The times you're deep in your flow and can't be interrupted by an auto update.

0:52.3

That's why we build tech that adapts to you,

0:55.5

built with a long-lasting battery so you're not scrambling for an outlet,

0:59.6

and built in intelligence that makes updates around your schedule,

1:03.0

not in the middle of it.

1:04.5

Find technology built for the way you work at Dell.co.uk

1:08.4

forward slash Dell PCs. Built for you. Imagine you're walking down the street with

1:17.2

your three-year-old daughter. You're trying to get somewhere, maybe work, maybe the gym, wherever.

1:24.4

But she's not. She stops for a crack in the sidewalk or some random stick on the ground,

1:31.0

or maybe an airplane zooming by. Of course, you're getting annoyed because she's distracted,

1:37.8

and it's holding you up. But the truth is that she's not actually distracted.

1:45.0

She's just noticing way more than you are.

1:49.0

We tend to think of childhood as this period of immaturity,

1:53.0

that we have to outgrow so that we can eventually become rational, productive adults.

2:06.1

But what if that's the wrong way to think about childhood?

...

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