I'm just going to record everything.

How's live?

They're shaking hands now, Lawrence.

That's the last time I'm going to do that.

No.

Hold on, guys.

I'm Justin Roller, and you are listening to Business Daily here on the BBC World Service.

And today, our entire programme is devoted to exploring a question that will help determine all of our futures.

We'll be asking whether economic growth is consistent with tackling global warming

or, alternatively, do we all need to cut back consumption to save the planet? It is a crucial issue

and it divides economists and theorists. Those divisions have been brought into stark focus

in the last few months thanks to a dispute between two leading British environmental thinkers

who've been battling it out very publicly online. And they're here with me in the studio. Sustainability expert Michael Liebrake.

Hello there. And Professor of Sustainable Development at Surrey University, Tim Jackson.

Hi, Justin. So can we tackle global warming and grow our economies? Let's find out here on Business Daily on the BBC World Service.

So, guys, before we start this debate, a bit of history for our audience. This dispute started last autumn when Michael, who runs a clean energy and transportation consultancy in London,

published an article entitled The Secret of Eternal Growth.

He argues not just that the economy can continue to grow almost indefinitely,

but the growth is essential if we're to successfully deal with climate change. That's fair enough,

isn't it? Yep, that's fair enough. Tim Jackson is the author of prosperity without growth,

a book that argues that unless we move away from the obsession with economic growth,

we are doomed to environmental disaster. Is that a fair characterization of your argument?

...