Paivi Rassan is a long-serving member of the Finnish Parliament who has found herself and broiled in some controversies for several years.

Now, she has a story to tell, one that our listeners should hear.

From 2011 to 2015, she was the Finnish Minister of the Interior.

And from 2004 to 2015, she was chair of the Christian Democrats.

She is also a physician.

So welcome, Dr. Rassan.

Thank you so much.

Thank you for having me.

We're really just going to go into the story, the episodes of what's happened over the years, which really begins

with something you wrote in 2004. What was that piece of writing?

Yes, it was a very small church pamphlet. I was asked to write some comments about marriage and sexuality. We had just had in

Finland a legislation about partnership law between same-sex couples. We didn't yet have

the marriage between them. But it was a very

topical issue in Finnish society and also in church life. And that's why they asked me to

write because I'm a medical doctor. I'm I was parliamentarian and mother of five, so there were many aspects.

So I wrote in two nights a short pamphlet.

And the pamphlet comes up in recent years, but at the time, did the pamphlets when it was published, posted, did it raise controversy

or it was largely not noticed outside the Lutheran Church?

Yes, it didn't raise any contradiction or any debate in our society or church.

It was used only for educational purposes in some churches.

So it gained very little attention.

And in fact, I forgot the booklet that I had even written that.

...