To hear the full episode, become a patron at petriam.com slash netpanel pod.

We have a vastly more powerful and pervasive carceral state now than we did in 1973.

And so this isn't going back to a pre-world world.

This is a world in which, like, we have yet to operate, where we have this massive criminal punishment system with

levels of surveillance that, you know, have never been turned on abortion in this way. We've seen it

in pockets. Like, we know that there are people who have been arrested and prosecuted for the outcomes of their

pregnancies, you know, based on sort of the digital trail that they left behind. And so, like,

we've seen some of those prosecutions, but I don't think we're prepared for what that's

going to look like on a national scale. And that is something that just didn't exist before Roe.

So we are heading into like an incredibly dangerous and uncertain sort of territory.

But on the other hand, knowing what we know about the cross-rural state, like we can kind of

predict the way that this is going to play out.

Like we know which communities are most likely to be surveilled and criminalized.

You know, we're talking about

people who have been criminalized for the outcomes of their pregnancies. We're largely talking about

women of color, women who use drugs. This is already been playing out in a way that that's,

that's what I was trying to do at the New Republic when I wrote the piece about abortion

criminalization. I've been working on that for a couple of months. And so it was only sort of timing that it came out

this week. Like, this is information that people have been working to gather and act on for a long

time. And so to sort of forecast where we're going, there's some signposts out there that are

really troubling. So I don't,

like, just brass tax, like I can't imagine sort of like post-9-11, post-Patriot Act criminal

...