Welcome back to another episode of the Relationship School podcast. I'm your host, Jason Gattis.

I've got my deep and good friend Keith Curlander here, who's got a shit ton of experience working with people and has made an incredible journey himself.

Runs a business called Integrative Psychiatric Institute, was a therapist

many years ago and a coach.

And yeah, you're on a mission.

It seems like key to change the world through good mental health practices, which

includes psychedelics and integrative care.

So thanks for doing that work.

Yeah, thanks.

Glad to have you here.

Good to be here.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Let's start with kind of an intense, deep question about why, about people.

Like, why do you think people suffer so much well i've i've been thinking a lot

about this for a long time obviously and you have two i think we both focus on the question of

why do people suffer and what can we do about it to make it better and easier right um

i think that people suffer so much because we're at a very challenging evolutionary stage of

human development i think that's why they suffer so much um i don't think people suffered this

much 50 000 years ago when they were more of an animal

experience with limited language.

And, you know, I think there was physical suffering, but I think there was a lot less

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