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This is Design Matters with Debbie Millman from Design Observer.com.

For 12 years now, Debbie Milman has been talking with designers and other creative types about what they do, how they got to be who they are, and what they're thinking about.

On this podcast, Debbie Milman talks with Stephen Heller about his attitude when he was a young

designer. I was short-sighted. I was arrogant. I had a sense of myself that was disproportionate to all

reality. Here's Debbie Milman. A season of design matters simply wouldn't feel complete without an

appearance by Stephen

Heller. He's not just a celebrated designer and art director. He's also a brilliantly prolific

writer of books, columns, blogs, you name it. Steve has been on the podcast pretty much every

year since we started 12 years ago, and we

never run out of things to talk about. This year, we're going to focus on one of his latest

books, graphic design rants and raves, Walmots, on persuasion, entertainment, education, culture,

and practice. It's an anthology of essays. Steve has written about everything

from Paul Rand to the fateful election of 2016. Steve, it's always a pleasure to see you in that

...