Ted Audio Collective.

Audio Collective.

This is Design Matters with Debbie Millman from design observer.com.

This is the 10th anniversary of the podcast,

10 years of designers and other creative types talking about what they do.

They got to be who they are and what they're thinking about on this podcast.

It'll be Milman talks with Simon Sinac about the fruits of good leadership.

To see your team achieve more than they thought they were capable of,

that they will advance the organization further

than you even imagine because they believe and they're grateful and they're inspired, it's all worth all the sacrifices.

It always is.

Here's Debbie Mama.

Are certain people just porn to be leaders?

Or is leadership something that can be learned? Are there strategies and

skills that we can learn from the likes of Martin Luther King, Steve Jobs, and

other inspiring movers and shakers.

Simon Sinac is trained as an ethnographer

and he has spent a ton of time thinking about leadership. His ideas are distilled in his latest book,

Leaders Eat Last, why some teams pull together and others don't. He joins us today in our studio in New York City to talk

about his career, his book and leadership. Simon Sinac, welcome to Design Matters.

Thanks for having me.

The first question I want to ask you is about your desk at work.

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