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Hello and welcome to Coffee How Shots. I'm James Heel and I'm joined today by Kate Andrews

and KT Bulls. Now, it's promised his questions today, but for the second time,

Riches Net was away and so it was Oliver Dowler who stepped up to face off against Andrew Rainer

and alongside both their portfolios is the role of cabinet office and

shadowing that responsibility. So obviously, given the cabinet office has been the news,

what came up covered in quarry. Kate, you tell us about the exchange today.

I think what was interesting is that it didn't massively move the position on. We had Oliver

Dowder and I think giving a bit more detail on the rationale behind the government's decision

to launch to disagree with you against its own inquiry, which I think almost universally has

been criticised. There have been a few Tory MPs defending the government, but there's also been

plenty. It was saying it makes the government look secretive. It's a bad look. Look at what

families of the bereaved are saying and in response to this. And given there's some skepticism,

the judicial review is going to be successful. Is it really worth the fight? I don't think that's

a sense as both in the Tory party and parts of government. But Oliver Dowder was making the

lonely view, perhaps. The idea of giving all messages over here on the witnesses called,

including those that are irrelevant or not directly related to COVID, would mean that all

of a sudden you're handing over quite intimate messages about family matters, personal matters,

...