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Capitalisn't

Should Companies Have A Social Responsibility To Be “Great Businesses”?, with John Kay

Capitalisn't

University of Chicago Podcast Network

Stigler Center, Chicago Booth, Socialism, Antitrust, University Of Chicago Podcast Network, Growth, 087667, Policy, Monopoly, Professors, Distortion, Research, Competition, Capitalisnt, Inequality, Promarket, Politics, Policymaking, Special Interest, Economics, Efficiency, Regulations, Chicago, Business, Markets, University Of Chicago, Kate Waldock, Capitalism, Friction, Bethany Mclean, Government, Macroeconomics, News, Education, Waldock, Georgetown, Microeconomics, Luigi Zingales, Zingales, Finance, Ucpn

4.5584 Ratings

🗓️ 16 January 2025

⏱️ 47 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

The public often imagines corporations as self-contained actors that provide a set of goods and services to consumers. Underpinning this image have been ideas of ownership, rights to capital and intellectual property, and corporate responsibility to stakeholders including consumers, workers, and shareholders. But what if almost everything we are told about the essence of the firm is wrong? So writes Sir John Kay, a British economist, corporate director, and longstanding fellow of St John’s College (Oxford) in his new book, The Corporation in the 21st Century. The book revolves around contrasts between historical conceptions of corporations, capitalism, and contemporary practices. Kay writes, “A central thesis of [this] book is that business has evolved, but the language that is widely used to describe business has not.” In the 19th and 20th centuries, firms could be defined in terms of their control over material forms of productive capital (factories, steel foundries, railways, etc.) Socioeconomic critiques of capitalism, most prominently from Karl Marx, often centered on firms’ control of the means of production. Kay contends that firms today access productive capital as a service. For example, Amazon does not own its warehouses but rents them from another firm. Kay writes that today’s corporations and capitalism “[have] very little to do with ‘capital’ and nothing whatsoever to do with any struggle between capitalists and workers to control the means of production.” Kay joins Luigi and Bethany to discuss the implications of this evolution in firms’ relation to capital: Why is it important to capitalism that its biggest firms no longer own their means of production? Why does the language used to describe this matter? What do Apple's manufacturing facilities, Amazon's warehouses, and TikTok's algorithms tell us about our notions of business ownership? How have these changes to capitalism redefined the struggle between the owners of capital, managers, workers, and consumers? In the process, Kay, Luigi, and Bethany explore the failures of capitalism and imagine what could and should be the purpose of the 21st-century corporation

Transcript

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0:00.0

The language that we've used for 200 years to talk about capital and capitalism doesn't have much to do with the reality of modern business.

0:10.2

I'm Bethany McLean.

0:11.9

Did you ever have a moment of doubt about capitalism and whether greed's a good idea?

0:17.2

And I'm Luigi Zengalis.

0:18.5

We have socialism for the very rich, rugged individualism for the poor.

0:24.1

And this is Capital Isn't, a podcast about what is working in capitalism. First of all, tell me,

0:29.5

is there some society you know that doesn't run on greed? And most importantly, what isn't?

0:34.5

We ought to do better by the people that get left behind. I don't think we

0:38.0

shouldn't kill the capital system in the process. When I started working at Fortune

0:42.4

magazine all the way back in 1995, Fortune thought of itself as a management Bible. It was what

0:47.8

executives needed to read in order to understand how to run a business. This was my first encounter

0:53.0

with management theory. The first time I realized that telling people how to run a business. This was my first encounter with management theory. The first time I realized

0:55.7

that telling people how to run a business was itself a business, one that of course encompasses

1:01.0

schools and books and consultants and theory and practice and on and on and on. I did a quick search

1:08.1

of some of the titles today, the five dysfunctions of a team.

1:12.2

The new one-minute manager.

1:13.7

What got you here, won't get you there.

1:15.7

The first 90 days, critical success for all leaders, and so on and so on.

1:19.6

And I'm not making fun of all these books, but man, are there a lot of them?

1:22.8

Okay, Luigi.

1:23.6

How does management theory intersect with economics?

1:26.3

How do the two disciplines think about each other?

...

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