In today's podcast, I am joined by my friends Kyle Thiermann, Chris Ryan and Mark Healey for witty banter, philosophizing, and intellectually stimulating conversation straight from the island of Hawaii, where we - along with several others mentioned in this podcast episode, such as Dr. Peter Attia, Kyle Kingsbury and Hawaii hunting guide Justin Lee - took a break from hunting, hiking, spearfishing and dressing meat to gather round the podcasting mics.

In this conversation, you'll hear...

-Recap of the trip...6:47

• Chris was a last minute substitute
• Primal surroundings: goat head in the back of the pickup
• They were all dropped off by helicopter on various spots on the Big Island
• Ben engaged in spearfishing; caught Hawaiian lobster, opi'i fish
• Impossible to replicate their meals in a restaurant

-Ben is asked about consuming energy bars while facing dehydration...12:17

• If you're in an extreme dehydration situation, you're probably starving to death, so don't throw them out
• They could potentially be used as a water filter because they're so thick
• Coffee and beer don't actually dehydrate you
• Energy bars have moisture in them
• Depends on salt content, moisture level, etc.

-How ranchers on the island of Kaho'olawe used goats to prevent sharks from attacking their herd...14:05

• Sharks would attack as they were loaded onto ships for transport
• Ranchers pushed a herd of goats tied to each other off a cliff
• The cattle was transported while the sharks feasted on the goats

-Discussion about the sustainability of humans hunting their own meat in the modern world...15:30

• Hunting is necessary in Hawai'i for sustainability of the land
• It's not cheaper when you factor in ammo, time spent hunting, obtaining permits, etc.
• Large amounts of money from hunting is invested into environmental sustainability
• Eradication vs. management
• Killing an animal is a deeply personal experience
  • Everyone who eats meat should hunt at least once
• We are what we eat: cruelty, apathy, torture, etc.

-How do our thoughts shape our health?...

• Book: The Biology of Belief by Dr. Bruce Lipton
• Book: Mind to Matter by Dr. Dawson Church
• Epigenetics: Behavior of parents/ancestors affects their children's behavior and instincts
• Do humans have instincts?
  • Going for the nipple
  • Fear of snakes
  • "Comparing notes" after a hunt separated humans from other animals
  • Coordinated hunting

-Our understanding of human history as it pertains to resilience toward stress...

• Research suggests we become more sensitive to stress rather than more resilient
• Chronic stressors (business responsibilities) our ancestors didn't deal with
• Experiencing stress without realizing it, or thinking you're relaxed
  • Practice makes automatic
• Difference between stress and excitement
• Alpha vs. beta brain waves
  • Alpha: what you experience in "the flow"; familiar, happy, focused
  • Beta: Higher level of excitement; less predictability
• Parasympathetic vs. sympathetic nervous system
  • Sympathetic: fight and flight nervous system
  • Parasympathetic: rest and digestive nervous system
  • Vagus nerve feeds into the sinoatrial node of the heart
• You want high heart rate variability (HRV)
  • Vagus nerve is operating the parasympathetic system properly
• Meditating, chanting, cold water assist with maintaining high HRV

-How stress affects rigor mortis (in hunted game) and cramping

• Deer reach rigor mortis in 20 minutes when corralled (stressed) and over an hour when killed in the wild
• You cramp in stressful situations while exercising due to calcium release
• Sour, spicy taste overrides neuronal reflex
• Golgi tendon organ limits the contraction, but is overridden by neuronal reflex
  • Other animals don't have this, and put far more stress on their muscles
  • When mom lifts a car to save the baby, the brain, because of extreme stress, overrides the golgi tendon organ
  • Brain over brawn: why humans have the golgi tendon organ and other animals don't

-The evolving understanding of convenience vs. an appreciation of our history...

• Infant formula: no colostrum, fatty acid,
• Breast milk is a fatty, highly addictive food; you'd be obese if you drank it all your life
• The microbiome is a gift to the environmental movement
  • Your surroundings impact your gut health

-Is bottled water really cleaner and safer than tap water?...

• FDA treats bottled water as a food product; tap water is treated as water, so it's tested far more often
• Chlorine, fluoride is in the tap water
• Bottled water comes from a filtered source

-Why Hawai'i is so freaking amazing...

• Hawai'i had cattle ranchers before California
• Beach as well as mountain culture
• Cultural holocaust: Christian missionaries
• Hawaiian language stayed alive in the cattle ranchers:
  • It was more functional
  • Perhaps reflective of the number of colors, sights and scents in Hawai'i
  • Akin to why podcasts are popular: you can break down concepts you can't on CNN

-How Mark Healy narrowly escaped death while surfing in Fiji...

• Grew up on North Shore of Oahu; got noticed by important surfer dudes
• Ended up going to Fiji for his first professional trip at age 14; had visualized Fiji for years
• Was in one of the most iconic surfing photos in history

-Is Nature really the violent, nasty, brutish force we're led to believe it is?...

• Hobbes: Everything eats life
• Things that appear to be important are not in evolutionary terms
  • Human chin - where two bones come together
• An arrow is a much better way to die than dying in nature
• We speak of death as though it's not going to happen
  • Non-Western cultures celebrate death
  • Perhaps explains animosity surrounding hunting

-Differing perspectives on how we relate our life experiences to others...

• Narrative: knowing which dots to connect, and what to leave out
• Being present and in the moment vs. on auto-pilot
• Writing the story before it happens
• Specificity is key. Too much information is overwhelming, prevents people from taking action (for example, charity donations)

-The role of fire and water in the history of human evolution...

• Source of food, amusement, protection, comfort
• Movement of fire is reflected in the nature of human consciousness
• They can alter landscapes, be very destructive
• Large swaths of the Amazon have been cleared by fire
• Podcasts around a fire never work well
• Water is the greatest source of "awe" that we know of

-Perceived scarcity vs. real scarcity...

• People with nothing live as though they have everything. People with everything live as though there's not enough
• Perspective, born of experience, helps to understand the disparity between real and perceived scarcity
• We spend money to isolate ourselves from others as soon as we get it
• Inconvenience puts you in touch with other people (hitch-hiking, taking the bus)

-Mark describes his business, Healy Water Ops...

• Many of the clients are very wealthy and successful in business and life
• They know a red herring when they see or hear it
• They enjoy having Mark run the show, tell them what to do; it allows them to relax for a bit

-Running a business, unschooling, and why we need to restore boredom in our culture...

• Treat your business like a big dog; assert dominance
• We don't have boredom anymore with social media, smartphones, etc.
• Silence often precedes a maturation in a relationship
• Learn how to hunt without a guide; self-taught
• Allow kids to work out conflict on their own
• Preventive medicine

-And much more.

Resources From this Episode:

-Book: The Biology of Belief by Dr. Bruce Lipton

-Book: Mind to Matter by Dr. Dawson Church

-Kion Energy Bars

-Kion Coffee

-Podcast: 32 Ways to Stimulate Your Vagus Nerve, Fine-Tune Your Nervous System & Self-Hack Your Hormones

-Article: The History of Hawaiian Cowboys

-About the Hawaiian Language

-Book: Ni'ihau: The Last Hawaiian Island

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Do you have questions, thoughts or feedback for this podcast episode? Leave your comments below and I'll reply!