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Impolitic with John Heilemann

Sebastian Mallaby: The Ghost in the Machine

Impolitic with John Heilemann

Audacy | Puck

News, Politics

4.84.5K Ratings

🗓️ 20 April 2026

⏱️ 78 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

John welcomes author Sebastian Mallaby to discuss his new bestselling book, “The Infinity Machine: Demis Hassabis, DeepMind, and the Quest for Superintelligence.” Mallaby explains why Hassabis, the leader of Google’s efforts in artificial intelligence, remains an obscure and under-covered figure compared with Sam Altman, Dario Amodei, and Elon Musk, the poster boys of the A.I. revolution; why, despite his relative public obscurity, Hassabis may prove more important in shaping our future than any of them; and whether he is, at bottom, the kind of person we should comfortable entrusting with such power. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

Aloha, Namaste, and welcome Tim Politic with John Heilman, a puck and Odyssey joint.

0:12.0

And if you are a sentient, news-consuming, cell phone toting, laptop-tapping human being in this Their of Our Lord, 2026, you are almost certainly familiar with

0:22.8

the following three names, Sam Altman, Dario Modi, and Elon Musk. You know that these are the poster

0:29.7

boys of the AI Revolution. You know that Altman, CEO of Open AI, is the industry's reigning

0:35.8

black hat, subject of a brutal deep dive in the New Yorker

0:39.8

a couple weeks back in which pretty much everyone he's ever worked with described him as a

0:42.8

pathological liar, power mad narcissist and borderline sociopath. You've also been reading

0:48.5

a lot, hearing a lot recently about Emote, the CEO of Anthropic and AI's new self-styled lone

0:55.9

ranger, donning a white 10-gallon Stetson as he battles the Pentagon over the deployment of

1:00.6

the firm's technology for mass surveillance and autonomous legal weapons. And then, of course,

1:06.3

there's Musk, about whom enough said. But even if you know all of that and more about Altman, Emote, Musk, and their race to rule

1:16.0

the AI roost, I'd be willing to bet a hefty wad of cash that you don't know much if you

1:20.7

know anything at all about Demis Hasabas, which is kind of curious for at least two reasons.

1:31.3

First, Asabas' story is pretty fascinating.

1:32.9

Born to immigrant parents in London,

1:37.2

childhood chess grandmaster and teenage video game design prodigy.

1:42.0

Asabas went on to found an early AI startup called Deep Mind and is now the field general in charge of all of AI at Google.

1:46.7

Which brings us to the second reason why you really ought to know about this guy and why it's such

1:50.6

an odd and inexplicable thing that he remains so obscure and undercovered. Given his role at what

1:56.0

remains arguably the most powerful tech company on the planet and the combination of qualities that caused one source to tell our guest today

2:03.9

that Hizabas would almost certainly be the first billionaire to also win a Nobel Prize,

2:09.1

which he did in chemistry in 2024.

...

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