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The John Batchelor Show

S8 Ep962: (14) Mary Kissel critiques U.S.-China relations, arguing that Beijing is a totalitarian enemy. She advocates for strategic decoupling and realistic planning, rather than hoping for fair trade or stability from the current Chinese regime.

The John Batchelor Show

John Batchelor

Society & Culture, Arts, News, Books

4.52.8K Ratings

🗓️ 3 June 2026

⏱️ 7 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

(14) Mary Kissel critiques U.S.-China relations, arguing that Beijing is a totalitarian enemy. She advocates for strategic decoupling and realistic planning, rather than hoping for fair trade or stability from the current Chinese regime.
NETHERLANDS

Transcript

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0:00.0

I'm John Batchel with Mary Kistel, a former senior advisor to the Secretary of State,

0:20.7

now at the Hudson Institute, to comment on the recent embassy by the President of the United States to Beijing, conversations with Xi Jinping, and now declarations by members of the cabinet that relations are good with the People's Republic of China.

0:35.7

Mary, is there a trade dispute or not?

0:37.8

And where is that dispute that has been in suspension, I believe, for about a year?

0:43.0

Well, there has been a very big strategic shift over this administration, but also Biden and Trump

0:48.2

won.

0:48.5

And that's, I think, that we've done away with the pretension that China wants economic

0:52.9

reform or to adopt any of the really

0:55.1

core tenets of capitalism, notably a true rule of law, a true property rights, etc.

1:01.1

Those hopes are dead. And so I think, you know, the main takeaways from the Trump

1:06.7

Xi summit were the following. First, the Chinese want something close to what they call strategic stability, which means don't change anything.

1:18.6

And if you do try to take action against us to punish us for our maligned behavior, we can wave our arms around and scream that you're upsetting stability.

1:25.6

And unfortunately, the U.S. side kind of

1:28.4

tacitly agreed to that. I think that was a mistake. Secondly, on the U.S. side, the president

1:35.9

proposed a board of trade, which is, again, an admission that we need managed trade with this

1:42.4

very large nuclear armed power that is noncompliant with

1:47.3

various treaties that is very aggressive towards its own people, its neighbors, and us.

1:52.3

And we're just going to throw – this idea that we're going to have any kind of free and fair

1:57.3

trade is just out the window. And I think that's very sensible. I wish that we

2:02.1

could go further. I wish that as a U.S. federal government, we could say Beijing is an enemy

2:07.3

because they say so themselves. They consider us an enemy. And therefore, we need policy

2:12.7

deriving from that fundamental truth. We're not there yet. We're in this gray zone area where we're

...

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