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I'm John Bachelor. Parliament in the 18th century. that was the parliament that dealt with the matter of life and death for the American Revolution.

It was also a parliament that engaged in the rolling war with France and with the empires of France and the remaining empires of Spain.

It's the parliament that also put to see the

Royal Navy that we celebrate romantically, for example, the Patrick O'Brien novels about

Matteran and Aubrey on the high seas against the French. It's also the parliament that dealt

with the rise of Napoleon and the troubles of

King George III, who now and again was cogent. And introducing, thanks to a new book by the

financial columnist and extremely witty man, James Grant, Friends to the end, is about the

parliament between a man named

Edmund Burke and a man named Charles James Fox, Fox and Burke, and their disputes on the floor of

Parliament. Luke Foster is an assistant professor of, in the School of Government at Hillsdale

College in Washington, D.C., writing most recently at Civitas Outlook for the Civitas Institute, his measure of James Grant's books, but also why we care about these men here in the 21st century. What do they tell us about government, about democracy, about sovereignty, and certainly about the power of rhetoric on the floor of the parliament?

Luke, a very good evening to you. I reading through again, I was reminded that how well a man spoke was often a major political weapon on the floor of parliament.

We've lost that in Congress, the partisanship,

and also the cameras have taken it away from us. So help us understand their genius. Who was

...