I'm John Batchew with David Livingston, Joe Pistrato, and Phil Swan,

and we're looking into the future now.

Beyond Artemis 2, 3, 4, and it's budgeted to 5, and then we don't know what it'll be called.

We've talked about the Earth Moon System.

We've talked about the Earth-Mars Moon System.

Joe, I begin with you because you are a longtime spacetime space investor and you're familiar with the big pitch.

Where are we going with this? What's the mission? What will be success? Ten years from now is the year 2037.

China's reached the moon. We've reached the moon. We want to go to Mars. China wants to go to Mars.

There are landers. They're sampling. There's good science going on. What do you want to have achieved in 10 years, given that at that point, Blue Origin, SpaceX, Rocket Lab, all the players will be ready for duty?

We really need to have a reusable system, a fully reusable system, so not like SLS.

We need a fully reusable system that can land people on Mars.

And if we can accomplish that in 10 years, I think it's pretty aggressive, but if we

can accomplish that in 10 years, then we will have won.

I say 10 years because I don't think I'm going to make it to 107.

So I wanted to go, I wanted to get there.

What it will look like is a combination of commercial and big space,

a combination of sovereign and sovereign China and U.S. working together,

purely commercial? Do you insist on any one of those, or are they all okay with you, Joe?

It's all the above. I think the, you know, NASA and the U.S. government will definitely be a part of

whatever commercial space, U.S., you know, commercial space from the U.S. side will definitely be a part of whatever commercial space,

U.S., you know, commercial space from the U.S. side. But let's not forget China has a commercial space sector, too. And some of people, some people think those companies aren't quite as, you know,

commercial as ours are. But there are a whole bunch of launch companies in China, and they are pushing the

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