I'm John Bachelor. Jack Burnham is here from the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies,

and I lean on Jack

to help me with China's conduct because I don't have the language, and he has the skill set, wide

skill set. They take into account all the ways that China is weaponizing everything we think of

is commerce. Now we go to a commercial satellite, understood to be something you can hire to take pictures

or to do a surveillance for you or certainly to get geography right. All these things are

available. They're also very good as a dual-use spy satellite. And the Financial Times in

these last hours has published a story that is

surprising, given the state of the world right now, and there's a delicate conversation going

on between Washington and Beijing in anticipation of President Trump's visit to Beijing,

hosted by Hushitin-Ping in the middle of May.

It's alarming.

F-T investigations.

Iran used Chinese spy satellite to target U.S. bases.

Not only target U.S. bases, but strike them.

Not only strike them, well, one of the strikes was against the U.S. airfield in

near Kuwait City and led to the deaths of U.S. service people.

The subhead leaked document show IRGC secretly acquired system and used it to guide strikes

during war in March. Jack, is this completely new, or has something been suspect for some time that China's commercial satellites are dual use?

I think there are parts that are new and there are parts that fit within a pattern.

I think the first part that fits within the pattern is China has attempted to develop its commercial satellite market. And a lot of those

firms have either acknowledged or somewhat close ties to the Chinese military. So that certainly

...