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Today. I'm John Batchel. I welcome my good colleague, Judy Dempsey, a senior scholar at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace in Berlin.

To comment on a success, the European Union has succeeded in turning out a very, very bad actor

named Victor Orban.

He is a reputation over many years in his native Hungary for being a man who finds his way out of jams. Well, he did not find

his way out of jam in these last hours, defeated roundly by someone who used to be a member of his

party, Peter Magyar, defeated with an overwhelming vote, I believe we're looking at complete

domination of the assembly with a two-third supermajority because changes have to be

made. Orban has mangled the system in Hungary to the point that repairs are needed in emergency.

Judy, a very good evening to you. I know it's good news. I know that Orban has created a machine

there that needs to be untangled. I know there will be fights ahead for Peter Magyar, but this

is the beginning of a turnaround. What made it possible, Judy? Because there was reason to despair

this last month after Orban went to Moscow and there was the threat of Russian interference. And

then the vice president of the United States stopped to rally with Orban in front of a very enthusiastic crowd.

And then still, the results are surprising.

Good evening to you, Judy.

Good evening, John. And thanks for having me on your show.

Well, at the opinion polls, and I'm almost a little bit skeptical of opinion polls,

...