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The John Batchelor Show

S8 Ep660: 1. Ancient Interpretations and the Birth of Scientific Observation Matthew Shindell explores how the Mayans, Chinese, and Mesopotamians projected human meaning onto Mars. These early civilizations used celestial movements to predict earthly events, ultima

The John Batchelor Show

John Batchelor

Books, Society & Culture, News, Arts

4.52.8K Ratings

🗓️ 29 March 2026

⏱️ 14 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

1. Ancient Interpretations and the Birth of Scientific ObservationMatthew Shindell explores how the Mayans, Chinese, and Mesopotamians projected human meaning onto Mars. These early civilizations used celestial movements to predict earthly events, ultimately laying the groundwork for mathematical science and astronomy. (1)
1913

Transcript

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this podcast. Indeed.com slash broadcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring, do it the right way

0:34.4

with Indeed. This is CBS. I and the world. I'm John Batchelor. Mars, the planet that we all

0:41.8

gaze at when we see it turn red, sometimes bright red, depending upon the Martian dust storms.

0:49.8

The fact that we gaze upon it is a way of connecting us to our ancients, our progenitors,

0:56.3

the people who first gazed on Mars without our instruments and robots and success.

1:01.6

Someone who tells this story wonderfully, I welcome Matthew Chandel.

1:06.6

He is a space history curator at the Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum, and his new book

1:14.4

is for the love of Mars, a human history of the red planet.

1:19.2

The ancients did not shy away from interpreting Mars, so Matt, congratulations and good evening.

1:26.7

Thank you.

1:27.2

Thank you.

1:27.3

Thank you. To the Mayans who looked upon Mars as a zoomorph, a Mars beast.

1:33.8

What did they make of that red planet in the sky?

1:37.2

Good evening to you.

1:38.9

Thank you, John.

1:40.7

Yeah, so, you know, the story of the Mayans is very interesting. I was attracted to that story,

1:47.7

partly because, you know, the Mayans have this incredibly, you know, robust understanding of cosmology,

...

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