I'm John Bachelor. Gordon Chang at Gordon G. Chang joins me, and we're off to Canada,

to Ottawa, the capital of our Canadian brethren.

For a conversation with the author and commentator and diplomat, Charles Burton, the book is The Beaver and the Dragon.

And the relations between Ottawa and Beijing have been a moving story these months since

the assertion of Mark Carney in the recent campaign to become prime minister that America is no

longer a confident or trustworthy trade partner. We need to expand our business connections

in other directions, including

China.

Though China is a small part of Canadian business now, there is the future.

Charles, a very good day to you.

My understanding is that Mark Carney sees a Canadian China relationship as an answer to the Trump administration's apparent belligerence

over trade. Is that accurate? Good day, Charles. Yes, he's certainly responding to

deep resentment on the part of Canadians over the Trump statements and some of the actions. So, you know,

a recent poll shows that 57% of Canadians would want to expand relations with China, regardless

of what Mr. Trump may impose in retaliation. I mean, of course, we'll see what happens when that actually happens,

but, you know, the drop in Canadians going to the United States, the number of Canadians

applying for the Nexus program that allows easier access to the U.S. has dropped by, from

$500,000 to $270,000. And of course, 85% of 500,000 to 270,000.

And of course, 85% of Canadians, according to the poll,

are boycotting Canadian products to the extent possible.

So, you know, he's appealing to the nationalist backlash

against the Trump initiatives to make America great again,

...