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with Indeed. This is John Batchelor, a conversation with Professor Richard Cowardy from Oxford University.

His new book is Righteous Strife, How Warring Religious Nationalist Forged Lincoln's Union,

admiring the ability of the preachers and the other orators of the time to speak in an enormously

colorful language. And here we turn our attention to a member of Congress, James Cox, who was called

Sunset Cox, and his denunciation of the troublemakers, in his opinion, the New England abolitionists, the Puritans.

The denunciation of the Puritans, it's rare to hear such eloquence anywhere in the 21st century.

Richard Carwardine, much more of this tonight,

the second hour of our conversation about Lincoln and the pulpits of the Civil War.

He's another colorful speaker, Samuel Sullivan Cox, a member of Congress, but they call

him Sunset Cox because he can talk, and the professor quotes him here.

It's incredible.

Puritanism, the audience hissed at the name, was, quote,

bread in the bone.

It is the same now as the tutors founded 300 years ago, ever meddling for harm.

He goes on to say it's character, success for justice, egotism for greatness,

cunning for wisdom, cupidity for enterprise, sedition for liberty,

...