S8 Ep186: The Emperor's Intervention and the Deadlock over Unconditional Surrender: Colleague Evan Thomas recounts that despite two atomic bombings, War Minister Anami proposed national suicide rather than surrender, deadlocking the Supreme Council, with Emperor Hi
The John Batchelor Show
John Batchelor
4.5 • 2.8K Ratings
🗓️ 13 December 2025
⏱️ 8 minutes
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Summary
1934 TOKYO
Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | I'm John Batch with Evan Thomas. |
| 0:06.7 | His new book is Road to Surrender, three men in the countdown to the end of World War II. |
| 0:11.4 | We go to Tokyo. |
| 0:12.6 | It is August 6th, August 7th. |
| 0:15.8 | The bomb has been dropped in Hiroshima. |
| 0:18.5 | The big six are learning that something has happened in in Hiroshima that is |
| 0:24.6 | unusual, except they're extremely reluctant to believe it. Togo at this point is still doing what |
| 0:33.2 | he can, lobbying for a diplomatic surrender and not the final battle that will kill. |
| 0:40.7 | Sometimes they boast about killing 100 million Japanese, along with all the Asian |
| 0:45.4 | peoples who are dying at the rate of 250,000 a day. |
| 0:50.3 | Togo goes to the emperor. |
| 0:53.6 | Foreign Minister asked for the audience with the emperor, and he goes to Hirahito. |
| 0:58.7 | What does he tell the emperor and how does the emperor react to news of one bomb destroying one city? |
| 1:08.9 | After the bombing of Hiroshima, although the army is in denial and doesn't even want to believe it is an atomic bomb, the emperor is starting to come around. |
| 1:19.3 | He's mad at the military because they're not being straightforward with him. |
| 1:23.9 | And his own court is telling him that 100,000 people have died in Hiroshima. |
| 1:29.3 | And the emperor starts to see, whoa, you know, the next bomb could be coming for me for the palace. |
| 1:35.5 | He's not totally wrong about that. |
| 1:38.0 | And so he wants to push up the diplomacy with Russia, you know, get this done. |
| 1:43.8 | By then he wants peace. |
| 1:45.7 | He's on Togo's side by then. |
| 1:48.4 | But the wheels are turning here, and the next day, the second bomb hits the Nagasaki. |
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