I'm John Batchler. I welcome Peter Husey.

Peters at the Gold Institute for International Strategy, as well as a fellow at the National

Institute of Deterrence Studies.

We turn to an article most recently I highly recommend in the new foreign affairs.

By Rose Kuthmler.

She is the William J. Perry Lecture at the Center for International Security and Cooperation,

as well as the research fellow at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University, writing the strange

defeat of nuclear deterrence and the coming crisis in strategic stability.

Peter, a very good evening to you. We both read this piece, and I'm a rookie at learning about deterrent studies.

So I very much appreciate your help giving me the frame for this, because everything Rose

reports clearly has a long, long backstory.

I begin first with the detail about the present conflict between Russia and Ukraine that I did not have to read out loud.

I'd heard about it, but it was just top.

Here's Rose's presentation.

The strength of the nuclear taboo was tested in the early months of Russia's invasion of Ukraine

when Russian President Putin evidently came close to using tactical nuclear weapons

to stop a route of his troops in southeastern Ukraine.

Rose goes on to say that he was prevented by his own military and consultation with China and India, maybe with the U.S.

That's more than a taboo.

That is very close to the use of a non-strategic nuclear weapon, something you've taught me about.

You've also talked me about strategic weapons.

So my first question to you, Peter, is do you, in deterrent studies, apply the word taboo to both tactical, non-strategic and strategic?

...