The conversation I'm about to play for you, I believe, is one of the most unique pieces of audio that is out there.

It's a conversation between Eric Carter Lundeene and his mother Brenda.

And what makes this conversation so special is that it's actually the first time that they've ever talked about the death of Jacob.

Not only that, but it's the first time they talked about anything involving who we've called John up until this point

and the abuse that he subjected them both to.

This audio is also available on Eric's podcast feed, True Consequences,

and he's given me permission to redistribute it here on my feed to you all.

So after you listen to this episode, if you'll do me a favor

and search for true consequences and subscribe to Eric's show,

I'd really appreciate that. He has been so generous

to myself and our show in being fully candid with everything involving his story and his brother's

story. And I just want to say I'm very grateful to Eric for that.

If you haven't yet listened to the Jacob Jeremiah Lundee season, I'd recommend

listen to those four episodes before you listen to this. There's quite a bit of this dialogue

that I used in my telling of this story, but there's also a lot of this conversation that you haven't heard

before. So now, without talking about it anymore, let me play for you the conversation between

Eric Carter Lundeene and his mother. Why don't we start with you telling me about Jacob? What

you remember about him? I just remember he was funny and he liked to laugh.

And he liked to pull drawers and make all the silverware fly out.

And he was just a silly boy.

He was really smart.

Like for being a baby.

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