I don't want to disfigure Sam for the purpose of this podcast.

I want to explain it the way I remember it.

People remember things not the way they happened,

but they remember the things the way they need to remember them

to make themselves feel better about themselves.

I don't want to do that for this podcast.

I don't want to do that for the discussion. I don't want to do that for the discussion.

I want to remember it exactly the way it happened,

whether it reflects well on me or reflects poorly on me,

because this podcast should be not only interesting from a human perspective,

but this podcast should be educational. Someone should want to listen to this podcast and say, okay, I don't want to be in the predicament that Anthony's in or I don't want to get snookered by a Sam Bankman freed. So let me listen to this podcast. Let me understand the whole context of what happened as a cautionary tale for me when I'm dealing with people.

Crypto horror study.

Crypto horror study.

It's a cryptohorror study.

Sam's life was centered around his work, and Sam's life was centered around the community that he built at FDX.

He was a workaholic. He was working an 18 to 20-hour day. He was known to literally sleep at or near his desk and get started for work the very next day after taking those sorts of catnaps.

He's not a traditional executive by any means.

He did not run the thing traditionally.

He had a lot of, obviously, ultimate power over everybody.

He did telafib related to Alameda. You know, when you were researching FDX

and considering making an investment in it, he made it very clear that he was separate from

Alameda and that he had nothing to do with it anymore. And there were people running it. Yes,

...