Hi and welcome to the Working Songwriter. The show where today's best songwriters come

to talk shop. I'm your host, Joe Pug. Each episode here we host a distinguished guest

and we ask them to go deep on their inspiration, on their process, on the general ups and

downs of making a life in music. So, whether you're a grizzled veteran, paying a publicist

a $5,000 retainer, just to publish headshots to your Instagram account once a week, or else

a scrappy upstart. Paying $5 a month to have an app do the exact same thing. This is your

show, because ultimately, it is what every writer seeks most, an iron-clad excuse to put

off, actually writing.

Hey everybody, it's the last Friday of May 2023 and I thank you for joining us. This week's

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