When you drive a Chevy electric vehicle, you're getting more than a way to get from point A to point B.

You're saying goodbye to gas stations and how low to open roads.

With the growing network of public charging stations, you'll be able to charge your EV while you shop, work, or do whatever you want to be doing with your time.

Chevy is making EVs for everyone, everywhere. Go to chevrelay.com slash electric to learn more.

Sabotage hired goons and a landfill in Utah.

How Steve Jobs' revolutionary catastrophe of a computer, the Apple Lisa, earned a brief second life, and then was buried for good.

Watch the Verges documentary, Lisa's final act, now on YouTube.

Hi, I'm Cara Swisher, the editor at Large of Recode.

You may know me as the champion of Duck Duck Goose and all other preschool games, but in my spare time I talk tech and you're listening to Recode D-code from the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Today we're going to play a live interview I recently conducted in New York with Gabe Weinberg, the CEO of the Privacy Focus Search Engine, Duck Duck Go.

This interview was recorded live at the Made by We Space in New York City, which is an event space in the Flatiron District owned by WeWork.

Let's go there now to hear my interview with Gabe Weinberg.

We're going to very quickly bring up Gabe. Come on up, Gabe Weinberg. He's from Duck Duck Go. We're going to talk about the awfulness of Google now.

This is Gabe. He's the founder and CEO of Duck Duck Go. This is another search engine. You do have a choice in this world, whether you know it or not.

All right. So Gabe, we were just talking about inequity and wealth and stuff like that. Let's talk about inequity of information, because that's really what's happened.

We have given over control of our information to one company, really, in this world.

I'm going to tell one quick story before he starts, so you get a sense of it. I was walking in the early days of Google with Larry Urserge.

I often can't tell them apart. There was a room full of televisions like a circuit city. I looked in and it was recorded. They were all on all these dozens of televisions.

I said, what are you doing? I think it was Larry. We're recording all of television. I was like, why? We can figure out a way to search it.

I said, have you gotten the copyright from those people to do that? Have you actually reached out? Why should we do that? Why do we need to do that?

I said, well, because if you have recorded it, then you'll have it recorded, then you'll have the search for it, and then nobody else can do it, and then you'll dominate it.

And he was like, uh-huh. And I was like, that's wrong to do that. And he was like, okay. And we moved on.

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