Summary
The anti-racist protests of the last two weeks, and the far right backlash against them, have revealed something significant about British society. Over and above the rights and wrongs of toppling statues, scribbling out street signs and cancelling old comedies, is surely the deeper question of how we should understand what is happening? Racism exists and there is palpable anger at the injustices black and minority ethic people are experiencing. Yet, at the same time, there are concerns about how the serious fight for racial justice can become an over-simplified battle of competing and increasingly polarised identities, based solely on skin colour. How racist is modern Britain? How can we truly get to grips with the complexity of this question? Once we have a greater understanding of how we got here, what should we do to address the racial inequalities we see in health, education, housing, employment and the criminal justice system? Are some individuals and organisations more concerned with demonstrating their own virtue than doing the hard work required to bring about lasting change? What does the ‘hard work’ look like and who should be doing it? Does the cause of racial justice justify rage and a ‘zero sum’ approach? Or can meaningful social change be negotiated in a spirit of understanding and honesty on all sides? With Dr Dominic Abrams, Dr Jason Arday, Jude Blay Yawson and Inaya Folarin Iman.
Producer: Dan Tierney.
Transcript
Click on a timestamp to play from that location
| 0:00.0 | You're listening to a program from BBC Radio 4. |
| 0:03.6 | You can download many more BBC Radio 4 programmes for free. |
| 0:07.7 | Find these at BBC.co.com.uk slash radio 4. |
| 0:12.5 | Good evening. As it happens, I was the BBC correspondent in South Africa during the death throes of apartheid. |
| 0:18.0 | Lost friends and was nearly killed myself several times, covering |
| 0:21.4 | the riots against the institutionalised serfdom of colour, where stop and search was done with |
| 0:26.9 | armoured cars and machine guns and all the power of a selfish state. I'm tempted to say I know about |
| 0:32.2 | racism. My black friends tell me I never can because I'm white, and of course they've got a point. |
| 0:37.9 | I don't feel I live in an institutionally racist society, but then I suppose I wouldn't. |
| 0:43.2 | And plenty of people do, judging by what's been happening on the streets, |
| 0:46.5 | following the casual killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis nearly a month ago. |
| 0:51.6 | There are certainly inequalities of outcome here. Some racial and ethnic minorities |
| 0:56.9 | do notably worse at school, though some do much better. Some groups are disproportionately over-represented |
| 1:03.4 | in the criminal justice system and underrepresented in senior positions in the workplace. |
| 1:08.9 | Black people lose out on wealth and health. Why? |
| 1:12.6 | It's more complicated than the slogans on all sides of the argument would have you believe, |
| 1:16.6 | but to what extent is inequality the result of lingering racial prejudice, conscious or unconscious? |
| 1:22.6 | How far is society still structured to advantage people like me and make it harder for those with |
| 1:28.5 | different coloured skins. What could and should be done about racism? That's our moral maze tonight. |
| 1:34.8 | The panel, Nazir Afzal, lawyer and former chief prosecutor for the northwest of England. |
| 1:39.7 | Melanie Phillips, social commentator at the Times, Nesreen Malik, columnist at The Guardian and the chief |
| 1:45.2 | executive of the RSA, Matthew Taylor. Nezarin, do you think you live in a racist society? |
... |
Please login to see the full transcript.
Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from BBC, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.
Generated transcripts are the property of BBC and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.
Copyright © Tapesearch 2026.