Summary
While the rest of the world is poleaxed by the pandemic, China is becoming increasingly assertive – if not downright aggressive. In the past few days it has annexed 60 square kilometres of the Himalayas, leaving 20 Indian soldiers dead. Meanwhile, Beijing is rushing through stringent security laws in Hong Kong, threatening Taiwan, sabre-rattling in the South China Sea and incarcerating 1.5 million Uyghur Muslims in concentration camps. China’s recent behaviour challenges the values that underpin liberal democracy, so what should the international community do about it? The problem is moral as well as geopolitical.
Some say the UK has been sleepwalking into economic dependency on China, with talk of a “golden era” of UK-Chinese relations. The time has come, they suggest, to disengage and denounce. For others, the priority must be our economic self-interest. They believe that imposing tough sanctions on Beijing or spurning Chinese investment in the UK (including Huawei’s role in our 5G networks) would inevitably hurt Britain in a post-Corona, post-Brexit world. Despite different traditions of governance, is it possible for China and the West to co-exist without trying to damage one another? History tells us that when powerful states become more oppressive at home and more aggressive abroad, military confrontation is never far away; under what circumstances might such action be needed? Or should we be concentrating instead on winning hearts and minds, worrying first about how our own nation could set a better moral example in the world? Within the long history of the rise and fall of global superpowers, how are we to deal with 21st Century China? With Dr Philip Cunliffe, Tom Fowdy and Isabel Hilton.
Producer: Dan Tierney.
Transcript
Click on a timestamp to play from that location
| 0:00.0 | You're listening to a program from BBC Radio 4. |
| 0:03.6 | You can download many more BBC Radio 4 programmes for free. |
| 0:07.7 | Find these at BBC.co.com.uk slash radio 4. |
| 0:12.4 | Good evening. They call it Wolf Warrior Diplomacy, and you don't have to have seen the film to get the drift. |
| 0:18.1 | China's assertiveness around the world this summer amounts to what many |
| 0:21.3 | see as a pattern of aggression. To cover four, or take advantage of, the virus pandemic that itself |
| 0:27.0 | is almost certain to have Chinese origins. The clampdown on Hong Kong, threats to Taiwan, |
| 0:32.7 | bloody incursions into Indian territory in the Himalayas and saber-rattling in the South China Sea have gone with a belligerent, some would say bullying, response to international criticism. We get most of our goods from China these days, a dependency the pandemic has served to underline. It's a burgeoning economic superpower that wants political heft and influence to match, yet it's a centralised autocracy, |
| 0:55.8 | oppressive internally and increasingly high-handed with the outside world. |
| 1:00.5 | President Trump has been talking tough about China, while privately, according to his former |
| 1:04.9 | national security adviser, hoping they'll help him get re-elected. |
| 1:08.8 | Here, it's not long since David Cameron was talking of a golden era in UK-China relations, |
| 1:14.5 | and worries about Chinese expansionism are still balanced by hopes that Chinese trade will soften Brexit |
| 1:19.9 | and help rescue the economy after the virus lockdown. |
| 1:23.6 | It's a moral as much as a geopolitical issue. |
| 1:26.5 | How do we deal with China? |
| 1:29.3 | Disengage and denounce whatever the cost, or embrace and engage, hoping the values of liberal democracy will eventually |
| 1:34.3 | prove as catching as the coronavirus. That's our moral maze tonight. |
| 1:38.3 | Socially, geographically indeed, distance panel, Mona Siddiqui, professor of Islamic |
| 1:43.3 | and inter-religious Studies at Edinburgh University, |
| 1:46.1 | the historian Tim Stanley, the comedian Andrew Doyle, and the priest and polemicist, Jars Fraser. |
| 1:51.7 | Tim Stanley, does history have lessons for us here? |
... |
Please login to see the full transcript.
Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from BBC, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.
Generated transcripts are the property of BBC and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.
Copyright © Tapesearch 2026.