Welcome to Our Hen House. This is Jasmine Singer.

This is Mary Ann Sullivan.

And this week's guests for the interview are two reporters from the L.A. Times, Melody Gutierrez and Aline Chekmedian, who have really ripped the lid off the continuing, apparently unending saga of puppy mills and puppy sellers and puppy buyers.

And how the recently passed laws phasing out pet stores, specifically but not exclusively in California California are not doing nearly enough to close

down the puppy pipeline. It's really, that's intense. Yeah, this was, we did this interview because

they had, they published this huge article in the LA Times, which really caught a lot of people's

attention. Yeah. And I was really upset about it because I really thought these new laws, like California is. California is the most notable, I think. Getting rid of pet stores had accomplished something. And, well, they're not saying they accomplished nothing. But, you know, as usual, the bad guys figured out a way around them. Yeah. That's bad. It's bad. I don't want to discourage people from

listening because it's not graphic. There's nothing graphic in there, but it's, well, you know,

it's something we should all know about. I'm teaching writing at the University of Rochester this

semester. And whenever I assign my students, like the most depressing story on earth.

They love it.

Like I feel like there is just this sort of masochistic inclination.

Like, oh, it's awful.

Tell me more or something.

That is true.

But people don't usually want to hear bad things about what's happening to animals.

I will say that they've had some success. They mentioned

this in the interview and we'll put a link in the show notes, an article that came out just the day

I think that I did the interview, which indicates that they have had an effect. I mean, it was a huge

article. It took them 14 months to investigate and write it was a huge undertaking and the politicians have

awakened in california a bit and the governor has chimed in and you know like when people start

to care about animals then it's possible for some policy changes possible i actually if only i had

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