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listening. Terms apply. This is John Batchel, conversation with the author Max Boot, his new book

Reagan, his life and legend.

Here, Max looks very carefully at the national security documents that appeared to present the Reagan plan, the Reagan administration plan, to undermine and push over and downfall the Soviet

Union.

However, Max records a conversation with George Schultz,

Secretary of State about this intention and learns a surprising detail. Max Boot, Reagan, his

life and legend. Much more tonight. Yeah, those were those were produced by Bill Clark, his national security advisor for part of his first term.

And they were confrontational.

They called for a policy of confronting and bringing down the Soviet Union.

But the actual implementation was much more varied.

I mean, for example, one of the very first things Reagan did in 1981

was to lift the grain embargo that Jimmy Carter had imposed on the Soviets after the invasion

of Afghanistan. So, you know, these national security documents are often cited as kind of a

blueprint for bringing down the Soviet Union. And because the Soviet Union eventually fell a few

years later, a lot of people try to draw a causal connection. But in fact, I think it's much more

complicated than that. In fact, you know, I asked George Schultz, who was Reagan's secretary of state,

...