This is John Batchel. Tonight, part two of Kingmaker, a conversation with Sonia Pernell,

the author, Pamela Harriman's astonishing life of power, seduction, and intrigue.

Here, Sonia helps me understand how it was that Pamela, now Pamela Digby-Churchill Harriman.

She's married Avril Harriman after meeting him serendipitously in the 1970s.

How she plunges into American politics, raising money for the Democratic Party.

And she takes under her wing a number of young politicos, one Bill Clinton, who has been recently defeated

after one term as governor of Arkansas. And the exchange between them is revelatory. Not only did

Pamela Harriman represent the money that Bill Clinton would need to return to office and eventually to the presidency, but also Pamela Harriman needed an understanding of how to do American TV.

She's a prominent fundraiser on N Street. She's married to one of the richest men in America. And yet, as Sonia tells us,

she didn't do TV well.

It frightened her.

Here's Bill Clinton,

the young defeated governor of Arkansas,

1980, somewhere in there.

Speaking to Pamela Digby Churchill Harrowman.

Born in 1920, the heroine of the story, married to one of the richest men, and still,

Bill Clinton guides her.

Much more of this tonight.

Well, it's very interesting.

She found TV quite scary.

She couldn't see the audience.

And so what she did when she was nervous would go into a sort of almost Chachillian delivery,

...