This is a conversation with Gary Bass, his book, his new book, Judgment at Tokyo, World War II on

trial in the making of the modern Asia. This is a guide, a lesson learned, a warning to all those who speak of war crimes

trials as if it's straightforward, as if something can be seen on television or reported and go immediately to the courtroom where they

will be condemned the person, the perpetrator or the people blamed.

War crimes, you hear war crimes often in Ukraine, you hear war crimes often in Gaza, you hear

war crimes across the map in conflict zones.

What does it mean to create the conditions for a war crimes trial, war crimes

tribunal all within this book and one particular warning must come from the

great dissenter a man by the name of Radhama

binod Pal, a judge from India who wrote a thousand page dissent as Gary Bass will now explain and to this day

celebrated for it dissent for the tribunalunals condemning so many to death for their conduct in war.

Here's Gary Bass on Rob H-Pao, the judge from India.

So he's, I'm so glad that you liked him

because he's one of my favorite figures

and one of the great pleasures of writing this book was spending time with his

children and grandchildren in Calcutta who very generously shared memories of their father and their grandfather.

He is from, you know, an absolutely self-made man who brought himself up from, uh, from rural poverty in in Bengal part of British India to rise to be at the pinnacle of

of academia in in Bengal at the time.

He's the head of a great university in Calcutta,

and is a very impressive legal scholar.

He's not actually trained in international law,

although it is universally believed,

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