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This is John Batchel, a conversation with my colleague Bruce Bechtel, Professor Bruce Bechtel of Angelo State University, the author of several books on North Korea, most

recently Rogue Allies about North Korea working with Iran. Here answers the question of how

the North Korean deployment to Ukraine performed in combat,

and the grades are positive, is Bruce, following North Korea's military and civilian

depredations for many decades.

Much more of this tomorrow night.

Good evening, John, and of course, good evening, Gordon.

Well, the measure was exactly what you and I talked about and Gordon, what I thought

they would be.

The special operations forces from light infantry units in North Korea, about 12,000 guys,

they actually performed very well.

They, you know, had not been in a conflict with drones before,

but they actually learned very quickly,

and they fought quite fiercely.

I mean, like savages almost, you could say, refusing to surrender, you know, all the stuff that one would think that North Korean Special Operations Forces would do.

They did.

Now, we had people that said they had heavy casualties.

They did have several hundred killed reportedly and about 2,500 men that were injured.

But if you're going to say that's cannon fodder, then you'd have to say everybody in this war is

...