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enumerator as of Q4, 2024 and top five products. This is John Batchel, colleague Annie Fixler,

the Foundation for the Defense of Democracy, testifying before Congress about what is to be done

about the cyber threat from People's Republic of China

that is daily, hourly, minute by minute,

recommending the concept of resilience.

It's not keeping them out.

It's maintaining while they're attacking. Here's Annie to explain. Resilience in cyber defense.

Much more of this tonight. Sure. Resilience as a concept is actually quite simple. It is can you withstand and operate through the crisis? So in the cybersecurity

sort of domain, folks are really interested in security. Can I keep the attacker out? I would argue

that's not sufficient. The attacker with enough time, with enough sophistication, with enough money,

they are going to get in. The trick is,

can you the operator, can you the U.S. government, can you a U.S. ally, operate through the crisis,

maintain a minimum level of operation so that you can achieve your objectives and your adversary does not prevent you from doing what you want to do.

So we need to develop that kind of resilience.

It's a physical resilience.

It's a cyber resilience.

And then the pieces that come into that or get more complicated, but conceptually, it's straightforward.

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