This is John Batchel, a conversation with colleague Anatol Levin of the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft, turns on what does Russia want? What will the U.S. give in order to end the war in Ukraine? And then there's this. Anatole reminds us, wars are unpredictable.

What could happen to the Ukraine army?

There's Anatol Levin reminding, reminding, reminding that this is not a clear path ahead.

Much more of this tonight. But of course, you know, on the other hand, as we all know, as we've seen in this war,

wars are very unpredictable things, and there are also, you know, on the other hand, as we all know, as we've seen in this war, wars are very unpredictable things.

And there are also, you know, so many reports of the exhaustion of Ukrainian soldiers.

So there must also be a risk that the Ukrainian army could suddenly collapse.

And at that point, of course, all bets are off.