This is John Batchel, a conversation with the author James Rom, his new book, Plato and the Tyrant.

This is the background story, the back story of the Republic, the book the Republic, and Plato's philosophy,

which he printed on the minds of the Academy, 4th century of B.C.E.

And for 2,500 years have been a source of inspiration and contest

and puzzlement by philosophers of each age, everybody projecting on the basis of the government

at the moment. The ambition of the philosopher King, I learned from Professor Rom, did not come to the late 18th century.

In the Greek times, they were thinking, what is a ruler, what is the best kind of ruler?

Tyrant, democracy, oligarchy, democracy, that means the landed owners, the landed gentriot

dominated everything.

And in this passage, James describes why it was that Plato first went to Syracuse.

Plato was shopping for models.

And Dionysius, the elder, who was ruling Syracuse, the most powerful state in Western Greece at the time,

a vast fleet, vast army, conquering parts of Sicily, challenging the Carthaginians.

He saw Dionysus as one kind of tyrant, were there other alternatives,

such as one represented in theory by Dion the brother-in-law,

who invited Plato to Syracuse.

There's Jim to describe that first visit and why.

There's much more to this.

Later on in the month, I'll be playing the whole two-hour interview.

Plato's three trips to Syracuse.

And the resulting observations, somewhat disguised in the Republic, more boldly in the letters of Plato, especially the seventh letter.

Jim Robb.

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