This is John Batchez, a conversation with colleague Richard Goldberg,

of the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies, of an investment advisory firm about ESG based in New York

that is giving bad information out to investors, bad information based on propaganda sources

sympathetic to or actually representing the worst elements of the Palestinian people,

the Hamas and other BDS elements, giving out that information under the guise of helping people's investments.

Here's Richard to explain by addressing rhetorically the MSCI controversies committee.

It makes these choices on the basis of bad sources.

He will explain more of this tonight.

So you have decided subjectively that a small vocal group of anti-Semites who are just trying to destroy one of our closest allies,

who have no demonstrable impact on any company's profits or operations,

but if they design a media campaign and set up a bunch of hate NGOs that are front groups for this campaign and release a report and get a reporter to cover it, whether it's Al Jazeera or the Palestine Chronicle or even the New York Times or the Jerusalem Post.

Because as you know, Jerusalem Post, Times of Israel, they're going to cover things that are anti-Israel because it's important to that audience.

And so they might cite what looks like a mainstream press article as proof that there's

controversy going on.

But the problem here is that they allow their basic fundamental sources and assumptions

to drive the decision by that methodology committee to say these sources are allowed and these assumptions

lead to a human rights risk.