This is CBS. I am the world. I'm John Bachelor. Gordon Chang, my colleague and co-host and friend,

and we turn to the United States Navy and its allies and its adversaries. I welcome Jim Holmes of the U.S. Naval War College,

professor, a veteran of surface warfare, writing most recently at national

interests about the future, in this case the future

of the Indo-Pacific and the question of the Navy of the Republic of India.

Beforehand, however, I'd like to call upon the professor to comment on a line

written many decades ago by John Foster Dulles before he was Eisenhower Secretary of State when he was still

a partisan attorney in New York State.

He published a book called

War or Peace in 1950. And he writes Chapter 19, the role of the military.

When the world thermometer registers not war, not peace, it is hard to decide whether to follow military judgments or

political judgments.

Professor, a very good evening to you.

I agree with that sentence and where are we in the not war not peace how to how to

understand the apparent confrontation in yet nobody's opened fire good evening to you

Jim.

Hey John, hi Gordon the pleasure as always.

Yeah, I mean that's a very good quotation and I would agree with it.

It's very hard to work to toe in an era of great power strategic competition as the

Pentagon is calling whether politics or political judgments or military

judgments should prevail in when there's a debate between the two.

I think our age is not unlike the age of Dulles and Dwight the Eisenhower and so forth

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