You are listening to the War on the Rocks podcast on strategy, defense, and foreign affairs.

My name is Ryan Evans, the founder of War in the Rocks, and in this episode I was joined by two friends, Dave McCormick, the author of Superpower and Peril, A Battle Plan to Renew America, and

Chris Brose, part of the leadership team of Andrel.

He also wrote a really good book a couple years back called The Kill Chain that many

listeners of this podcast might have read and should have read.

Both books are terrific.

Both guests are old friends and it was really great to have them on the show.

I started writing the book several years ago after I had written the Texas National

Security Review article that you and I spoke so much about that you gave me good

feedback on and then I thought after writing a couple articles that I'd write a collection of

essays and we thought about that a bit James James Cunningham and I, who's my great

collaborator and friend, and we decided no, let's write a book. And so we wrote a

proposal for a book I think in 2020 and then decided to run for the Senate in late 21 and so we had to put the

book on hold for a bit so we had about 70% of it done before we ran. And then after the campaign, there was an opportunity to integrate all the

stories from Pennsylvania. And the thrust of the book in a nutshell is America is in decline.

And decline is a choice and so is renewal and and this is a book about a plan for renewal this is the

what-to-do book. Chris you've talked about these same issues a lot.

We've thought about it, talked about it for years.

What's still missing when it comes to using innovation to power American renewal in terms of policies where Congress should be where the executive branch should be.

Yeah and I think I'm still making my way through the book but really you know

congratulate Dave and James on writing it I think it's like an

absolutely critical argument in a critical time because I think a lot of a lot of

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