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The Money with Katie Show

Personal Finance is Broken—Can These Economists Fix It?

The Money with Katie Show

Money with Katie

Investing, How To, Self-improvement, Business, Education

4.81.3K Ratings

🗓️ 10 September 2025

⏱️ 80 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

My guests this week, economic professors John Campbell and Tarun Ramadorai, argue that the financial system itself is a powerful contributor to wealth inequality, and that there are ways to improve it. Their new book, Fixed: Why Personal Finance Is Broken and How to Make It Work for Everyone (out October 21), addresses how the bulk of our financial issues are downstream of poor structural design, not personal shortcomings—and what we can do about it. (00:00): Intro (04:00): 🏁 How our financial system allows the upper middle class to pull away from the lower middle class, even if they start in relatively similar places (26:55): 😈 Why financial firms aren’t incented to make better products, and how “competition” produces services that exploit the human tendency for bad decision making (41:42) 🏡 The unique products in the mortgage market that might actually be underutilized (like ARMs and reverse mortgages)  (57:50): 🍼 What John and Tarun would include in a “personal finance starter kit” for every adult (like a Finnish baby box, but for when you’re a baby adult in a predatory system) (01:08:50): 👊 Where the three of us disagreed about who should be providing said starter kit Our show is a production of Morning Brew and is produced by Henah Velez and Katie Gatti Tassin, with our audio engineering and sound design from Nick Torres. Devin Emery is President of Morning Brew content and additional fact checking comes from Scott Wilson. Transcripts, show notes, resources, and credits will be available within a week at: https://moneywithkatie.com/personal-finance-broken. — Money with Katie’s mission is to be the intersection where the economic, cultural, and political meet the tactical, practical, personal finance education everyone needs. Get your copy of Rich Girl Nation:⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://moneywithkatie.com/rich-girl-nation⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:34.2

Over the last 20 to 50 years, there's been an enormous growth of the middle class relative to other classes, which is to say part of the wonderful story of the last 50 years is there's been so much economic growth that people have been transported from near subsistence conditions to conditions where they have a little bit of money to spend.

0:53.9

But that having a little bit of money to spend. But that having a little bit of money to

0:55.7

spend brings with it newfound vulnerability that needs to be managed using a modern financial system,

1:00.6

and many of them are simply not equipped with the tools. So one of the reasons that this is a universal

1:05.3

problem is actually because of a good thing, which is that we've acquired enough income for us to

1:10.6

be in the position where these

1:11.9

kinds of issues matter.

1:13.5

We just haven't acquired the financial system we need to make our lives better, and that's

1:18.7

part of what our book is about.

1:22.5

Welcome back to The Money with Katie Show.

1:25.3

I'm Katie Gaddy Tossan, and I just read an advanced copy of a book called

1:30.2

Fixed, Why Personal Finance is Broken and How to Make It Work for Everyone by John Y. Campbell and

1:36.7

Tarun Ramadurai about the fact that the system is not producing bad outcomes by accident, but by design.

1:44.9

It's structured into three parts.

...

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