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I'm John Batchtram, visiting with the author Richard Munson. His book is Ingenius, a biography of Benjamin Franklin,

scientists, emphasis in Richard's book on the experimental Franklin.

But there was the political Franklin we know well from revolutionary times.

He was older than our founders.

He was a founder founder.

All of the names we know so well look up to Franklin as this antique wandering around and a somewhat stout man in his

seniority. 70 would have been old in the 18th century. 80 would have been unbelievable,

something comparable to 150 today. And we'll get there. But I go to one particular moment when it was clear to me that Franklin wanted to find a way

to keep the colonies in train with the empire, the king.

He didn't want to be defiant.

And the parliament put him in a place called the cockpit,

which is really the hearing hall in Whitehall.

And the prosecutor for the parliament lambasted him.

That's an inadequate word without Franklin being able to answer for

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