Hello, everyone, and welcome to Talk Nerdy.

Today is Monday, March 30th, 2026, and I'm the host of the show, Dr. Kara, Santa Maria.

And like I do every week, I want to start the show by thanking those of you who make talk nerdy possible.

If you're interested in pledging your support as little as a dollar on an episodic basis, all you've got to do is visit patreon.com.

That's p-at-r-e-on-com slash talk nerdy to learn more.

This week's top patrons include Chuck Blevill, David J.E. Smith, Daniel Lang, Mary Neva,

Will Defraine, David Compton, Brian Holden, Gabbo J, O'Rickahagman, Pascuali Jalati, and Joe Wilkinson. And of course, so, so many more.

Thank you all from the bottom of my heart. You keep this going. You help me pay the editor. You help me pay my

coordinator. And yeah, keep the show going, even though I am working many hours at this

point in my clinic. Um, I'm, I'm going to keep making the show as long as you guys want to

keep listening to it. And this week, I have a really interesting episode for you. So I had the

opportunity to speak with Dr. Marlene Zuck.

She is Regents Professor of Ecology, Evolution, and Behavior at the University of Minnesota,

and she's a member of the National Academy of Sciences. She's written for a ton of different outlets that I know you've read,

like the New York Times, the LA Times, and new scientist. And she's written several books

previously, including dancing, cockatoos, and the Dead Man Test, and also Paleo Fantasy.

But she has a new book out, and it was actually named a Spotify editor's

pick for the month of March. It's called outsider animals, how the creatures at the margins

of our lives have the most to teach us. So without any further ado, here she is, Dr. Marlene Zook.

Well, Marlene, thank you so much for joining me today.

My pleasure. I'm excited to talk about your new book, Outsider Animals, how the creatures at the margins of our lives have the most to teach us. And of course, we'll probably touch on some of your other writing

over the course of the conversation. But before we get into this specific book and all the

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