Welcome to the Black Girl Burnout podcast.

Kelly here.

And we are continuing our conversation with Stacey Ann Buchanan and Dr. Natasha Williams.

In this segment, we get into a little bit of how they are centering joy professionally,

maybe a little bit personally, into their lives.

They talk about some cultural burdens and cultural stigmas that come along with that

and how they are for themselves in their own backgrounds, finding joy. All right, let's

dig in.

And we are back with Stacey Ann and Dr. Natasha.

And if you caught the episode earlier this week, we listened to this incredible stories from both of you talking about your kind of journey to opting out as you will and how it perfectly led to so many other opportunities and to both professionally,

and it sounds like personally for you all. And along the way, we talked a little bit,

you both talked about stigma a little bit, right? That what means to be a black woman?

So much of our identity is carved out from seeking help.

I mean, even Rest, you talked about early on, Stacey,

and that you're like an advocate for rest as being resistance.

And I want to get back to that because we are an international community.

And I do think it is stigmatized for black Americans, Africans.

It is stigmatized for West Indian folks. But there is a cultural resistance to therapy. And you all, particularly speaking from a West Indian perspective,

that is not something that is talked about. And when people go to get help, it's like,

no, you don't need that. You're

crazy. Sometimes it's intertwined with faith for some folks as well, too, that they're just like,

we'll pray that away. And we now know that you can pray for sure, but it's not going to cure

...