Hi, this is Jonathan Lehman. Welcome to this episode of Nine Marks, Pastors Talk.

Nine Marks exist to help pastors build healthy churches learn more at nine marks.org. Or if you want to

help out the ministry, go to nine marks.org forward slash talk. If you want to see more stuff like this and you're able to give, we'd be very grateful for that.

Today I have a couple of special guests with us, Ligand Duncan and Michael Lawrence.

Ligand Duncan, if you don't know him, is the chancellor and CEO of Reformed Theological Seminary.

One of the largest, you get right there behind them, one of the largest seminaries in the

country, and also co-host with Matt Smithhurst of the Everyday Pastor, which is a TGC podcast on

the Nuts and Bolts of Ministry. Ligin, how long have you been doing that?

Boy, at least a year or so with Matt.

It's really Matt's idea, and he needed an old guy to talk to. So I served the role of being the

old guy. And I, you know, I'm just very thankful for Matt's ministry, his creativity. I just add a little bit. Matt does all the hard work.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, he is, having sat through a church service of his, having known him for years,

he is a great pastor. Yeah, he is. And I know he's learning from another great pastor with you.

So I hear so many good things about that podcast, encourage people to consider it. And then know he's learning from another great pastor with you. So I hear so many good things

about that podcast. Encourage people to consider it. And then of course, Michael Lawrence,

who's been here a number of times, senior pastor at Henson Baptist in Portland, Oregon, formerly

an associate pastor with Mark. Yep. And been at Henson since 2011, 10? 2010. 10, yeah.

16 years.

And as I explained to both of you guys, Mark and I have now done three episodes on raising

up leaders.

I want to do another one now with a couple of his oldest friends.

And it's just to think about the topic generally.

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