I think the news media to some extent has sort of kind of come to terms with how to cover Donald Trump.

But there hasn't been a reckoning in how we do with the media environment that allowed Trump to be birthed into existence, really, in politics.

And I don't think until actually there is that reckoning, Trump might go away, but like the problem is still there.

And it's actually getting worse and worse. This week's guest is someone we've wanted to talk to forever and ever and

ever. And now the news just demands his voice on about everything that we are covering. He

staked out ground that no one rivaled at CNN for years

and then went out on his own as the founder of status. He now also helms the podcast Power Lines.

This is the best people, and this is Oliver Darcy. Thank you for being here. I'm so excited to be here, Nicole.

I read you for years and years and years at CNN.

My best friend is Dana Bash, and I used to read your reporting and call her and say,

oh, my God, did you read it Oliver Darcy's writing?

And especially during the Chris Lick story,

how did you sort of have the presence of mind to cover your own institution like that?

I felt like the moment demanded it, to be quite honest. And I think this moment demands accountability journalism inside the media. Like there needs to be, it's a huge power center. And like any other

power center, if there's no one holding it to account, if there's no one shedding light on what's happening, bad things can happen and people make bad decisions often. And so I thought it was an important job. And also, like, you know, my name was on it. My face was on it. And I didn't sign up to be a journalist to do public relations for, you know, billion-dollar corporations.

And so, you know, if I wanted to do that, I would be in PR.

And so I felt like it was important to, you know, shine light and to hold everyone accountable, whether that was my corporate company, you know, CNN, the corporate company that or owner of that, Warner Brother Discovery, or others. And I also told,

you know, my boss is there. I said, I'm not going to call another news organization or another media

company and hold them to a different standard than we're holding ourselves to. And so if we, you know,

if CNN does something that generates controversy or is

perceived as a bad decision, we need to cover that the same way we'd cover anywhere else.

I mean, I think everyone listening is nodding if they're in our business, but I just think

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