You are listening to the War on the Rocks podcast on strategy, defense, and foreign affairs.

My name is Ryan Evans.

In this episode I talk with some very special friends from Air University about the war in Ukraine

and what we can learn from it so far.

I'm Andy Aiken.

I am an associate professor of international security studies

at the US Air Force Air Command and Staff College,

and I had the fortune of studying in Russia for a year as an undergraduate and then for a summer on a short-term Fulbright-Hays Fellowship while I was working in my PhD.

I'm Mark Convercino, currently the provost chief academic officer at Air University.

I hold the rank of full professor.

My fields include the former Soviet Union and Russia and I have traveled there at least once

a year for the last two decades.

I am Anna Betta. I am an associate professor at the Air War College and my background is

Eastern European Studies and also Russian politics and similar to

Mark I have also traveled to Ukraine on regional cultural studies the past few

years. And Mark this is your second time on the show so welcome back.

Thanks for having me. It was virtual. It was in the middle of COVID.

Yes, thanks for having me. It's a pleasure. I want to really focus and dig

into this issue of lessons from the war. Is it too early to draw lessons from the war in Ukraine?

Do we understand enough what's actually happened? Because obviously there's this war of narratives,

which I know you want to dig into but there you know the

the public information campaign can sometimes lead to incorrect conclusions

...